Guest book
Welcome to the edited guest book of Fantasy Finder, where you can find messages from May 8, 1997, to June 22, 1998. For newer messages, or if you want to give a message of you own, please visit the Fantasy Finder BoardRoom, where the discussions continue. Older messages are found in the old guest book.

Literary criticism should stick to the literature. So should criticism of criticism (although I'm breaking that second rule here).

The critic's mission is to read the book, and say what he feels about the book. His opinions may differ from yours - and a good thing too. It is as bad a mistake to follow a critic's recommendations blindly as it is to attack the critic when he says he loathes a book you love (or vice versa).

A critic serves as a kind of signpost. If you disagree with his comments about the works of your favourite author, look for OTHER authors he says similar negative things about. You'll probably like their work.

One change that might improve this site is - dual reviews. I used to watch a Movie show which featured two film critics who frequently disagreed with one another. When they agreed a film was good, it was. When they agreed a film was bad, I usually felt they were right too.
James Barbetti

Have you read Patricia McKillip's series, The Riddle-master of Hed? It has a wonderfully complex and diverse land colored with interesting and compelling characters. Only three short books, too! Also, I saw that you mentioned "Golden Witchbreed" by Mary Gentle.... did you know there was a sequel? Finally, I haven't read any of Goodkind's work, but the continuing debate has, at the very least, intrigued me..... perhaps I will borrow one of his books soon (I only buy what I know I will love) !
Cheryl Jones

I read your page regularly and , while I don't always agree , I have found some excellent new reads ( of particular note Nobody's Son and Robin Hobb's Assassin series ) which are far above the regular grist of the fantasy mill. Thanks for an entertaining web page!!
Bill Burdick

When I read Terry Goodkind, I liked it, but not book three. It was f****d up. I liked the other two. You and some other people on the net opened my eyes, though. Now I agree with you on how bad Goodkind really is. Also Robert Jordan really showed me good fantasy,and that helped me quite a bit. That bastard goodkind copied Mr. Jordan's quality fantasy without shame. Earlier a guy said that goodkind's series is a trilogy. He's going to write three more volumes of crap. Six books. I also didn't like Eddings, especially Belgariad and Malloreon (actually I started Belgariad but it was too much to bear, so I stopped after one hundred pages. I tried Malloreon, dumped it after fifty pages). Liked Ellenium, though.

I also liked reading the Farseer series and I enjoyed Feist a lot. Can't wait to start "Memmory Sorrow and Thorn".
M.Jordan

P.S. Tell all those pathetic teenagers to stop whining about the Sword of Truth series. Open your eyes, you losers.

Kay: I think there's just a little bit too much in his "Fionavar Tapestry" - you know, crucifixions and stuff. His later stuff, like Tigana, is more to my taste. Still with stories where you can't be sure there will be a happy ending at last. /karl henriksson

About the modessit books. I completely disagree. I thought that the second book was terific (although I agree that the present tense did get anoying) while I found The Magic of Recluce a little boring. I liked the way that in the Towers of Sunset you didn't know what was going to happen while in Magic of Recluce you could pretty much tell from the beginning that he would go ahve a few adventures and then turn into the perfect little order mage
fantasy fan

P.S. I'll put in one more vote for McKillip. She's great.

Modesitt: The reason I like "The Magic of Recluce" isn't the end but the way there. Especially the great sections about carpenting. But of course, if story gets too obvious it takes the fun out of it. That's what a lot of critics say about the books published after "The Towers of Sunset", where he is more or less recycling the plot from "The Magic of Recluce". /karl henriksson

In short though, I find David Eddings works amusing, interesting and fun to read. While quite a few people might object and think otherwise, I don't think this is a reason for anyone to tell someone else that they shouldn't read this or that book. As I said, we are all different, both in our apperence and in how our minds work. Now, wouldn't it be a dull world if we were all alike? Writers like David Eddings, Robert Jordan and Feist ensures that everyone, although beeing different, always has something that they enjoy reading at their hands. I think we owe them more then one-way critisicm on their works.
Thanks,
Jonas

"Little, Big", published 1981, is an altogether different matter. I might put it on my reading list for closer inspection. /karl henriksson

Here comes some tips of books (Iīm sorry that some titles are in Swedish but I just donīt know what their english titels are):
* Guy Gavriel Kay: Fionavars vävnad (3 parts)
* Marion Zimmer Bradley: The mists of Avalon and The forest house.
* Elisabeth Moon: Paksennarion (3 parts - a book about a young woman who follows the paths of Gird, whom E.M. has written about before.)
* Raymond E Feist and Janny Wurst: Daughter of the Empire and the thereafter following books (3).
* Raymond E Feist: Magikerns lärling (which tells the story of the country (barbarians) who figures as a strange people in the Daughter of the Empire- books...)
* ...and of course David Eddings: The Tamuli (and the following books which Iīve forgot the names of (in all there is 6 of them)) and Belgarath the sorceror (which is Belgaraths story about what took place since he was born until the time of The Belgariad).

Iīm sorry to see that you donīt like Eddings very much. I think he is a great writer and that he gives the persons in his books great personalities. And above that heīs very funny. But, you shouldnīt compare him to a writer like Robert Jordan, the fact is that the Belgariad at first was meant like a childrensbook and therefore is very simple to read. But Iīm 24 years old and I like him a lot anyway!
Pernilla Olsson, Umeå, Sweden

Next, yeah I'm a fan of Jordan, and Eddings, and Goodkind. And yeah, maybe they do copy many ideas from other classics or even each other, but lets face it- After thousands of Fantasy novels, (and non fantasy) ideas are bound to be replicated time and again. For example: 1) The old, bearded mage who knows more than he is telling (Belgareth, Fizban, Elminster, Zed Zorrander, Ghandalf, Merlin etc...) 2) A magic sword owned by the main character (Rand's Callandor, Rich Cypher's Sword of Truth, Garion's Orb sword, Excaliber etc...) And many other Fantasy cliches- But who cares?! They work! These are all top-selling novels, and in a few years new authors will copy them and be all the rave.

Finally, who cares if certain authors are taking six or ten books to tell a story? I'll keep on buying. Jordan is like the E.R. of Fantasy novels! I'm all for it- Even though I'm still agape over the fact that Crown of Swords only covered 12 days in the Wheel of Time.
lysander

There's no problem if a writer tells a story in ten 800 pages books, as long as he's got a story for 8,000 pages. I'm not suggesting Jordan should use an extremely dense prose, but I think he could've written the complete Wheel of Time-story in "only" four or five thousand pages without any great loss for the readers. Btw, what's an E.R.? /karl henriksson

Next subject: I didn't mean to boot Hobbit out of the fantasy genre all together. Sorry about that. It is fantasy, obviously. But what I meant is that it was not adult fantasy. (that makes it sound like porno :) ) He used childish vocabulary, and- damn it! Everyone was singing etc... The TSR books are aimed at teens, and young adults, which in my estimation leaves the Hobbit for an even younger audience.

Finally, I haven't read Tad yet, but I have a copy, and am itchin to start it, but I have other plans first. I'm reading David Drake's "Lord of the Isles"(I'm half way through, and its not bad!), and then the 4th T. Goodking book- then I'm on it!
See ya- Lysander

Back to why I'm writing, I noticed you haven't reviewed Guy Gavriel Kay's The Lions of Al-rassan. (Possibly spelled wrong--I don't have it with me.) While along the same lines as Tigana and A Song for Arbonne, in my opinion it's better than both of them. "Magnificent" comes to mind.

kristine kathryn rusch: the fey i loved it .. but argh .. it seems there should be a 4th book .. yes? she's writing star wars books currently .. mayhap she'll continue after she's done .. i hope.

tad williams: memory, sorrow and thorn excellent tril .. but perhaps the 1st quarter of book 1 coulda been shorter? tho .. it did lead to a well developed character.. heh

robin hobb: farseer saga is robin a he or a she? this one kept me on the edge of utter helplessness and hoping for a turn around .. it left me feeling hollow afterwards .. but i still loved it. i guess i'm just a sap .. hehe

could ja suggest any books with the originality of "the fey", the rich story of "memory, sorrow and thorn" with a goodly dose of the "farseer saga"s ambience thrown in? hmmm hmmmm? oh .. and a longer ending than "memory, sorrow and thorn"

oh .. and for terry goodkind fans .. if you haven't already order'd ahead .. book 4 of the "sword of truth" is out .. sigh .. another 25bucks on a hardback .. oh well .. heh.

READ "ENDER'S GAME" by orson scott card .. EVEN IF YOURE NOT A SCIFI FAN. one of the best books i've ever read|@#|!@||!!!
jasyn

also read the novels by Melanie Rawn
dragon prince series, dragon star series and Exiles:ruins of ambrai
Rosemary Kuder

Two comments about these: (1) the mere fact we all seem to argue incessantly about the merits of Jordan's work, etc, is itself elegant proof of the popularity regardless of individual convictions, and (2) in these three cases, a truly unique universe was created unlike any others to-date, complete with their own atmosphere and spiritual aura which is ultimately why i believe these three are so popular. they each have their religion-esque mantras tailored to that world which underlies practically the entire storyline. they all show the escalation of a very tiny, innocent perspective massively scaled to the very boundaries of the sprit and mind known to their respective worlds.

i have read all three series 3 or more times each.
Ed Dudenhoefer

P.S. - and yes, Jordan really ought to start gathering in his plot-weaving a bit as of "The Path Of Daggers".

Some other fantasy books I've read:
Terry Goodkind: Wizards First Rule: I actually liked it, sometimes it is fun to guess what happens several chapters beforehand...I didn't make it through the first chapter of the second book, though.
Dave Duncan: Past Imperfect and Present Tense: A bit of "The chosen hero who travells between worlds" books, but still good. A lot of the action takes place in England during WW1 - a must-read for fantasy readers who also are anglophiles.
Melanie Rawn: The Ruins of Ambrai. "Women's fantasy" with a lot of beautiful, strong women and a lot of romance. I didn't understand it at first, but liked it the second time I read it. Didn't like her earlier books, though.
Rosemary Edghill: The Twelwe Treasures-series. Comic/tragic fantasy about a librarian in New York. Not your average fantasy novels. (From my rather limited experience, at least.) I like them a lot!
Anne Marcusson

I find that you seem to hold similar tastes to myself. In particular I could not agree more with your commentary on the Wheel of Time, Memory, Sorrow and Thorn, Tolkien and Eddings. I believe the net is full of too many Jordan fanatics, and they would do well to broaden their horizons. I enjoyed Eddings when I first read him but I became frustrated as he preceded to repeat himself ad nausiam. I also became particularly irritated as his novels degenerated into continuous direct speech, most of which was small talk and banter.

In short only Tad Williams comes close to Tolkien in quality of written prose.

Steve Wotton
London

PS have you read any Terry Pratchitt? He is good for a laugh.

PAWN'S DREAM
eric s. nylund
A very good read, its about a nightman journey into an alternate world filled with magic, demons and wars. Usual stuff, he does well and the story has a good ending.

Dark Horse Plains (4 books)
mary h. herbert
This story is about a young woman called Gabria, who survives a genocidal maniac and goes on to build her own clan, with magic, magical horses and sheer guts. It could be called a 'woman's story' but I dare say some might disagree. The four books are fun to read and one tends to identify with the heroine.

Of course the best fantasy tale( I think) is the Hindu tale of the Baghavat Gita, the story of Krishna, siva and sita. However, slagging this might get you in trouble with several hundred millions of Hindus, hehe, lol.

Take care
John Johnson

A really good series to read is Janny Wurts' "Wars of Light and Shadow" It presently consists of three books: "Curse of the Mistwraith", "Ships of Merior" (in paperback part two is called "Warhost of Vastmark") and the recently realeased "The Fugitive Prince: part one of book three Alliance of Light" There are another two books expected. She also wrote three books with Raymond E. Feist which is another really great read.
Bye - Adam Daidone

You have been the recipient of my Random Thought for thr Day; do with it what you will.
- rob.

2) Ever considered having some kind of order by topic as well as by author (stories with magic, with animals, with historical settings, with dragons, etc.)???

3) My job permits too little time for reading. I am not whining but rather stating a fact; I _chose_ the job. Anyway, between finishing college and starting the job I re-read, as planned, LOTR (just the four major books--Hobbit and I, II, III). So what is the best book / series of all time? My vote is obvious and, to me, unchallenged.

2) Yes, that was actually where the Fantasy Finder idea started almost two years ago. Now, it's more or less ready to be implemented, the basic programming done for a fancy java multi-choice fantasy topic search engine. Unfortunately, I don't have the time and energy to fill the database with all the necessary information right now, but sooner or later it'll be up and working. But it's not in the near future. /karl henriksson

P.S. Do you think it's correct to separate R.A.Salvatore's Dark Elf Trilogy from the Drizzt series in your Fantasy Finder's Top 5 list? Drizzt is the protagonist of the Dark Elf Trilogy.
Markus

I know absolutely nothing about the internal relationships between Salvatore's different books and series. As a matter of fact I know almost nothing about quite a lot of the books voted for on the top list. I think it's great if you readers point out if books belongs to a series or other mistakes made when editing the list. I'll look up this and every other correction proposal. /karl henriksson

Its a mafia/detective story set in a fantasy world of elves and humans. The hero and his familiar ( yes, he is a witch) go about killing 'targets' for money and to raise his 'standing' in his world. Great literature, its not but its good fun and the reader gets pulled in into the assasin's side quite easily. Let me know what you think of it.
John Johnson

by the way, my personal favourites are: Tad Williams, Megan Lindholm (Robin Hobb), George R. R. Martin (read some of his old books, esp. ARMAGEDDON RAG), Sean Stewart, ...

another question: is tWoT worth it's price, when you haven't enjoyed the first book? I mean it's better than the most fantasy novels around, but I don't think Jordan's prose is nearly as good as William's, Martin's or Hobb's -- but this depends on your own point of view. my question is: does the story improve in the further books?
cya,
-Amael

I know absolutely nothing about Joah DeVinge. Jordan: unfortunately, I don't think WoT gets any better. If you didn't like the first book, you probably won't like the rest of them. But still you could do a lot worse. /karl henriksson

Thanks,
Dennis W. Bohnert

Donovan Mattole

Did this long passage have anything to do with your letter? Not much, I'm afraid, but at least you got a list of interesting books to read. /karl henriksson

Alright. Question time...

1- If I've given you my top five, and then I've read, say "Memory Sorrow and Thorn", and want to give it my "3" ranking, and slide Goodkind down a notch, do you accept adjustments? Or are you too busy to be bothered?

2- Jack Whyte's "Camulod Chronicles" has recently been brought to my attention as being excellent by many sources, and so I checked your list to see if I should bother with it--- But its nowhere to be found! Is it really bad, or has no one laid their fingers on it yet?

3- Just out of curiosity... Who puts out the fattest (most pages- not slang), novels of authors you've read? Anyone beat Goodkind, Jordan, and Williams?

Finally, thanks for a really entertaining, and reliable site!
-Dan Dean

3. The fattest series is definitely Wheel of Time. I mean, seven books of that size and more to come. The fattest single book in a series is probably Williams' To Green Angel Tower, part 3 of Memory, Sorrow and Thorn. I read it in hardcover, but it hasn't escaped my eye that they had to make it into two brick size volumes for the paperback edition. But there are a few really impressive runners-up in this category as well. You mention Terry Goodkind, but I think Melanie Rawn shouldn't be forgotten. The Golden Key - co-written with Kate Elliott and Jennifer Roberson - is quite impressive, as well as her Exiles novels. Another author who shows good skill in this aspect is George R.R. Martin, but I haven't got A Game of Thrones in my vicinity right now, so I can't make a proper comparison. /karl henriksson

I am not sure what age has to do with the enjoyment of the genre, but I will mention that I am 32 and have been an avid fantasy reader since 12 years of age. I bought Sword Of Shanara when it came with that great poster picture in the middle!

I enjoy Goodkind because he writes on a more adult level of fantasy. I've had my flirtations with the more innocent side of the genre, but do enjoy a book that involves the complexities of our humanness.
MJ form NJ

The other day in the faculty lounge I saw a young substitute with a fantasy novel up to his face. I demanded to know exactly what he was reading. I was happy to discover that his taste was much like mine, except that he read different authors. Then, I found out that his mother( a fellow faculty member), has a great appetite for fantasy. We are now exchanging books. They are discovering some of my favorites and now I am going to try out some M. Lackey, one of their favorites! Life is good. Either I am not odd, or there are many odd people out there like me!!
MJ from NJ

Oh by the way, I just finished reading a book by Piers Anthony. Never tried his books before this. It's called "With a Tangled Skein". I believe it's part of the Incarnation of Immortality series. IMHO, it's a pure load of crap. I don't know what in the world the story is about. The theme is flaky, the plot is loose, and the characters are mildly irritating at best.
cheers,
Zel

I like WoT very much, but I do wish the characters would act like real, grown-up people. Especially the women get on my nerves - either they are sultry seductresses or just bossing the men around. And I do wish all that sniffing and braid-pulling would stop and these people would for once really TALK to each other. And while I'm at it, I wish Jordan would write faster. I actually enjoy his wordiness (when I re-read the series, that is - when I read a book the first time it makes me want to scream with frustration), but I wish he'd get on with the story. BTW, does anyone care to bet when Moiraine is going to come back? ;-)

As for Goodkind, he's got me kind of hooked, too, although he's not exactly original and somewhat too violent for me - I'm fed up with scores of women being raped in every book. At least Temple of Winds does NOT feature Kahlan's special smile anymore. And nobody calls Richard a very special person. Thank you, Terry! A vast stylistic improvement!

Hm, your review of the Riddle-Master trilogy actually make the books sound interesting. I started on No 1, but after about thirty pages I got so bored that I put it away again. I think I'll trust my own judgment on this one...

Some books I have enjoyed but not found on your list:
Robert Asprin's MYTH series (at least the first four books) - may I call him the Douglas Adams of fantasy?
Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar books (although she is somewhat preachy at times)
Anne McCaffrey's Dragonrider of Pern series

Looking forward to your next reviews,
Irmgard

It's stranger that McKillip's Riddle-Master trilogy has been such a major bestseller. It's a weird one, and I think those who put it away after thirty pages havenothing to fear. If they didn't like it from the start, they probably wouldn't like it very much in the end. /karl henriksson

If someone asks me what I read or like to write, I don't want to say "Fantasy". People roll their eyes and think your odd. "Fantasy" sounds like "nonsense" or "comic books"- it deserves more respect. What WE read IS some serious stuff, and its perfectly fine for adults, just like much of science fiction is. I think it deserves a more serious name- like "Midieval Fiction". While at the same time, there are other books which need to remain "fantasy"- books which stray further away from knights, swords, and sorcery, etc...
Sorry to rant like that, but thats just my opinion- I could be wrong! See ya- Dan Dean

The Fey, Robin Hobb's Assasin, Tad Williams Memory, Sorrow and Thorn, Sean Steward, Eve Forward and the truly great books of Guy Gavriel Kay (im hunting for Tigana and Lion's still).

Those are all writers i have found with the help of Your website and greatly enjoyed. Kay is one of my favourites so far, especially the 'A song for Arbonne' which was an exciting epic tale of the clash of two cultures, the hard northern warriors way versus the courteous and gallant southerners. As you can see from the above im a lover of high or epic fantasy, probably cause my first meeting in young years with this genre was The Lord of the Rings of Tolkien.

I have waded through Jordan and Feist, and i agree with the notion that Jordans books is declining.....i will give the next book 'Path of Daggers' a try though. Feist managed to give the Serpentwar a good conclusion though in his 'Shards of a broken Crown' but it was not quite the pageturner i had hoped for...

Yesterday i finished 'A Game of Thrones' of George Martin and found it had some exciting themes....but im cursing myself for picking up book one of a triology when the other two's not published yet...it could be a long waite for the Coming of Winter.

Now im waiting for the fourth book of the Fey and Jordans last and The Clash of Kings, while im bugging my bookstore to order the two books im missing of Kay.....any idea of what high fantasy to pick up next?

Brooke, Eddings et all does not appeal so much...and it seems to me that You know of far more books than those in the democratic list. A tip of my own....those who like Dark Sword and Sorcery should try late Karl Edvard Wagners books about Kane.... Again thanks for a greeeeat website...You are doing a marvellous effort!!!!!!!
Arve ;-)

Perhaps you judge Goodkind too harshly -- I mean, it is very difficult to come up with a completely original concept; besides, a lot of similarities can be found between the WoT and The Lord of the Rings. So perhaps you should give Goodkind another chance. Trust me -- it's worth it. Just try and look beyond the printed words, into something deeper that is present in TSoT. The books might be wordy, and somewhat slow at times, but that is not the reason to dismiss them as pointless. I hope you'll listen to my advise -- it's a good read.
Elshad Kasumov

As for Jordan's work, I enjoyed it but had forgotten so much by the time the next one came out that I stopped reading it. I also recommend Donaldson's "A Man Rides Through" and "The Mirror Of Her Dreams.

Although not quite fantasy but with some elements common to fantasy are "Dune" and "100 Years Of Solitude".
Brian Perry

P.S. To the person who wrote about "Little Big"--CONGRATULATIONS!!--It seems like a great book, but for some reason, despite numerous attempts I haven't been able to get more than half-way through it.

The crimson shadow deals with a world that has been brutalised by a wizard-king and his cohorts (fellow wizards) and their cyclopean soldiers. And young Luthien sets out to get rid of them and save the world..sigh... I know you may find it boring but then i found Tolkien boring. oh well
John Johnson

However, I don't always agree with you...in fact, I often DISagree. I think you spend way too much time focusing on the quickies.

In particular, you are incredibly off base concerning David Eddings. Sure, the Mallorean is formulaic (there are many signs that Eddings was rushed when he wrote it) but I don't think that many people could disagree that the Belgariad is a masterpiece (I won't say on par with Tolkien, for reasons obvious later). Sure, the "epic" background story isn't really all that epic. However, there is not one single moment in the first five books that drags (unlike Jordan and most other writers). In particular, the very first novel is one of the best fantasy novels ever written.

I really think that you should try the Elenium...for me it was a return to form. The plot isn't all _that_ different, but the narrative is a lot more worldly, urbane, and knowing...the main character is a grizzled battle-scarred knight (well into middle age) not a young innocent farmboy. In particular, the seedy aspect that was only lightly touched in the first series' is very prominent here.

Anyway, on to other matters. As for the longstanding Goodkind-Jordan debate:

1. Terry Goodkind is a negligible hack. Although long, his novels lack breadth and scope.

2. Robert Jordan is a great writer, one of the masters. _I_ happen to enjoy the wordiness...his worlds are so much more vivid and lifelike then many others, while at the same time retaining a fairy-tale like quality. As for the characters -- they are excellent. Of course all the women are beautiful and all the men are strikingly handsome...but isn't that how it always is in fairy tales? Jordan has done great depicting the changes in Rand's character, in particular. Mat happens to be my favorite though...he is just so cool. My least favorite character is Faile...she seems very two-dimensional. I will admit that the series is getting a bit long. I think it definately should have been finished with by now.

Okay, I just have to give my opinion on a certain subject... I know I'll get a lot of flak for this...Here goes: *deep breath* J.R.R Tolkien is.... _extremely overrated!_ Boy, that wasn't too hard. It's true ladies and gentlemen. Earlier Karl, you mentioned that Tolkien was taken for granted because he was the first fantasy author that we all read...well, I am an impartial observer, since my first fantasy was Piers Anthony (I thought he was great when I was 11, but now I can't get through a single one of his novels, no matter how hard I try to force myself. His newer ones are even worse) and Edgar Rice Burroughs (I believe that he is a true literary master, not just within the confines of Fantasy and SF). See, most people start off by reading Tolkien and they think to themselves "Boy, this is good." Then they go on and find other fantasy authors and say "This is great!" However, if someone read, say, some of Jordan first, they'd read Tolkein and say "Hey, this is boring! Nothing happens for the first hundred pages...he just goes on and on. Sure, he really did a lot of research, but who cares, I want a fun, entertaining story, not a dry, encyclopedic slog like this. And boy, this poetry is sure corny."
Jack Redelfs

2. Tolkien. You're right, what author you start with definitely colours your perception of others. But I don't think those who start with Tolkien invariably will find Jordan great, or those who start with Jordan invariably will find Tolkien boring. There're different qualities to the different series. Jordan starts in a hilarious tempo (at least compared to his later ones), while Tolkien's work, like Tad Williams's, drags a little in the beginning. Jordan concentrates on the characters and their relationsships and feelings, while Tolkien's work is much more about world-creating and myth. There will always be those who prefer one or the other, but the old idea that "this (Tolkien) is what fantasy should be like if it's any good" is definitely gone. Keep on discussing in the Fantasy Finder BoardRoom! /karl henriksson

Great site. I'm very happy I found it.
Jay L. Bishop